In this interview, I want to introduce you to a seller who started at $0 as a foreign seller in Jan 2018, who iterated and scaled his business rapidly through a combination of diligence, attention to detail, and reinvesting the profits.
We really enjoy working with someone so organized and detail oriented, and have been impressed to see his growth up close. Although I didn’t realize the extent of his business before I spoke with him, by the end of this month (Aug 2019) I expect him to hit $250,000 in YTD sales.
There are a few resources mentioned in the conversation so I’m just going to pop them in for you:
- LinkClump Chrome Extension
- Keepa Extension
- Bookscouter.com and DirectTextbook for researching tradein prices
- Feedback Express
- Context Search
- Highlight Words
- Metrics Tracking Spreadsheet from TheBookFlipper
Seth was very generous with his time and for agreeing to share so many details with us. I often hear how overseas sellers are at a disadvantage when it comes to Amazon, and while they are somewhat limited in a few ways, it is not a limitation that is impossible to overcome.
I hope you enjoy this episode with Seth Baker!
Shanna Mann: This is Seth Baker. He is one of our favorite clients. He is extremely well organized and does quite good book trade in used textbooks. So, I wanted to have him talk to you guys about how you can run a fairly well scaled textbook business. Seth, how long have you been selling on Amazon? You can also speak on if you sell on Amazon UK or Amazon Euro, as well.
Seth Baker: Yeah, sure. I started out on Amazon UK in January 2018, but I kind of started in Retail Arbitrage doing absolutely anything that would turn a profit. I kind of had no idea what I was doing. It was the first business I’ve ever started. So, I was just picking up whatever I could from the equivalent of Walmart over here and just trying to see what would sell and I kind of had no clue. I had a bit of an idea how to use Keepa. But, other than that, it was kind of like whenever there’s a deal on a shop, I would check my Amazon app and see how much it was going for in Amazon and kind of just like chuck in — I was doing all the prepping myself. I live in a small flat in London, it’s kind of similar prices to New York. So, I basically had loads of stock my flat, lived with my brother and he was just getting really annoyed about it, and it was all very disorganized. I was making a bit of money, but I think the fact that I was spending so much time on it and the disorganization meant that was probably a lot of returns that I should have done. I didn’t get around to it, and I probably wasn’t making as much money as I should have or could have. And, I actually am not sure when I got turned on to the US market, but I had no idea the books were so lucrative and sold so well, so I did I did sell some books in on the UK Market. But, in the UK, it’s a lot slower.
It’s highly ranked, but it’s hard to say. So, in the US, you probably think that you could sell any book within up to 500,000 that sells relatively well, right? Well, in the UK, probably say that anything up to $100,000 sells relatively well, so it’s obvious there’s a lot there’s a smaller pool of looks to take from and I would kind of send them in and I’d wait a couple of weeks or a book to sell — maybe a month or something. So, I basically just didn’t see the value of it. And then, I found Zen Arbitrage. I can’t remember whether it was on YouTube or I can’t exactly remember, but thought “I’ll give it a shot.” It’s worth a look in the margins that are good and stuff. At around the same time, I started doing books and contacted you. My Amazon UK actually got banned. So, as well as being very disorganized and not really knowing what I was doing, I accidentally bought quite a lot of video games that were counterfeit. I think it was just because I was taking up so much stock in my flat — I was kind of just like sifting through stuff, just checking in a box and I wasn’t really taking time to look at everything see whether it was legit. So, a few customers complained, I got banned. I spent quite a bit of money trying to overturn that ban, and I didn’t have invoices because I was buying from eBay. So, that was a problem. And then I never got that bad overturned. I had a good five or six thousand dollars sitting in there that was due to be dispersed to me, and that obviously is still sitting there. Now, I realize they’ll never return it.
Shanna Mann: Oh! I thought they just held on like about six months or something.
Seth Baker: No — I thought that too. So, I emailed their support and they said “we’ll give you three or four months so at least you get some of it back — the stuff that’s not counterfeit.” So, as far as I can see, it’s been a year now and they’ve just kept it. And I also had a few thousand dollars worth of stock in there, and that, at some point, they just decided to dispose of 90% of it. So, I’ve lost about $10,000 in the UK Market. But, fortunately, because I started churning a lot of my revenue from the UK and moved that into the US in July/August of last year, I was able to get the ball rolling with the US market. That’s quite a long-winded way of me saying how it started.
Shanna Mann: That’s awesome though, because I’m sure that it was really awful — what you went through — but, you seem pretty blasé about it now. Do you have an entrepreneurial background? I ask because it’s usually the people I’ve seen with a lot of different businesses in their background, who are just sort of like, “Yeah, that one didn’t work. I lost about 10 grand.” The people with the more conservative mindsets are usually the ones who are like “I lost 10 grand. I’m never touching Amazon again.”
Seth Baker: This is my first entrepreneurial venture, but I think I’ve always had a bit of an appetite for risk. I’ve also wasted quite a lot of money in cryptocurrency and Bitcoin as well.
Shanna Mann: Oh, you’re one of the bleeding edge types!
Seth Baker: That’s right, trying to be, but losing a lot of money on that as well. I guess the way I looked at it was that I’ve lost a bit of money, but I’ve learned a lot and also I kind of put a few books into Amazon US, turned a pretty good margin. Well, I’ve lost a bit of money, but I can take this into the next venture. And, fortunately, people tried and helped out, and it worked well, really.
Shanna Mann: I guess you got shut down in the UK before you were able to really see if you could get the Zen rolling in the UK, or the margins weren’t good, as well as the pool being smaller or…?
Seth Baker: No, I would say that I could have done a lot better in the UK, but I would have needed a prep company because, obviously, there’s no way of scaling in your flat to any degree.
Shanna Mann: Even somebody with a house and a garage in the United States would be hard-pressed to scale to a certain point.
Seth Baker: Exactly. It just would have been a bit of a nightmare. I think the UK is a really good market, especially because we can sell into the EU market as well. And the Germany, Spain, and Italy are quite fresh, really. It’s really quite right to find something through Amazon UK, and then sending it in and then selling it on to Germany for triple the amount, or quadruple, just because, apparently, Germany especially, just doesn’t really have online shopping yet. So, Amazon is kind of the first one and Germans are willing to pay a significant amount more just for the convenience, I guess. So there was potential, and I obviously was, at the time, quite gutted. Yeah, I did get banned, but the US market is a lot better and I’m always glad it happened because it’s allowed me to focus on one thing. The main reason I think I’ve managed to do relatively well is that I’ve realized that rather than buying video games, groceries, baby products, and whatever else. It’s best to niche down and really learn your market — and the books have just been really good for me to be able to work, really.
Shanna Mann: That’s awesome! So, do you mind sharing how much revenue you get from the books, or your monthly figures on on the .com market?
Seth Baker: I would say the first six months was quite slow because I still hadn’t learned how to read a Keepa graph. So, I spent a lot of time buying books where the FBA price was obviously a lot higher than the merchant fulfilled price, thinking that “Oh, I’ll send it in and the FBA price is still going to be where it was” without looking at the average price over 90 to 180 days. So, spread the first six months — it’s just about breaking even, maybe making a bit of profit. It’s quite frustrating. And then, something clicked. And around December, which was quite fortunate when it came around to the January textbook season, I only had about 350 books in January to 350-400 books around January 1st — I did $30k that month. That was way more than December. December was probably about $8k, or something like that. So, it went quite swiftly up to $30k. And then, because I’d pretty much sold out of most of those 350, didn’t do that much in February. Then March, I think I went straight back up to maybe $25k. April was probably $30k. In May, I did $54k. June was $50k. And then this month will probably be between $40-50k. I’m pretty hopeful that August maybe hit six figures.
Shanna Mann: You’re on track for at least a quarter mil, this year, it sounds like. Possibly even $400k.
Seth Baker: Yeah, essentially.
Shanna Mann: Sounds awesome! I’m sitting here doing the math scribble.
All right, that’s awesome. I love it! I love to hear that you took your time, in the first six months, to really figure it out because I would say, of the clients that I see go through here, they’re really dissatisfied with not making a profit for the first little while. And I can’t tell you the number of emails I’ve written where it’s been like “Give it two textbook seasons before you really start to anticipate making decent money because you’re just paying tuition at this point.”
Seth Baker: Exactly. You can’t expect to be a millionaire straight away. I know it’s the age-old thing isn’t it? It’s like people want to just become successful straightaway and whatever business model there is, whether it’s digital marketing or Amazon FBA, it’s the same thing, really.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, and if you see somebody out there making six figures a month, or whatever, that rest assured they didn’t start there. Just figure that “Okay, I have seen someone make six figures. I now know that this is possible and I will work to get my skills up and refine my niches until I can get there.” It sounds like you read into Keepa graph and it sounds like it was a really big break point for you. So, did you study up on it, or was that just a function of looking at a lot of them?
Seth Baker: Looking at hundreds and hundreds of keepagraphs, it’s definitely going to be in the thousands. It probably just got to a point where I got to however many books, where the FBA price actually dropped to the average, or below the average, and I was just getting a bit frustrated. And I thought “Wait a second. There’s something I’m missing here. I need to start not looking at like the weekly graph. I need to look at the yearly graph and to check the supply and demand. I need to look a bit more intricately into the graph.” And yet, as I say, that was a few months in. I probably should have watched some more YouTube videos, or read some more answers, that told me to look at the average price because that kind of makes sense, but I don’t know.
Shanna Mann: There aren’t a lot of great resources on Keepa, I don’t think. I think it’s difficult to teach people how to analyze. When I’m asked, my biggest piece of advice is that there’s nothing on Keepa that doesn’t mean something, so figure out — if they went to the trouble of adding to the graph — what that information tells you. So, work backwards from the data to find out what other people are inferring from it. That’s the best way I can think of to explain to people that the Keepagraph is a gold mine of information. You can analyze data, but then when people are like “Well, how do I analyze?” I’m kind of stumped at how to explain.
Seth Baker: It’s a definite overload, really, isn’t it? It’s kind of similar to Amazon Seller Central. When you first look at it, you think “Oh, my God! Too much to deal with. I don’t know where to go. I don’t know what to do.” And it’s the same with the Keepagraph, I guess. I kind of looked at it, and because it’s too much information, I thought “Oh this graph is quite squiggly. It looks like this sells well. The sales rank is looking good, so I’m just going to buy that.” Actually, you need to look at the average price, you need to look at how it was doing last year. You need to look at the off account. You need to factor all of it in but, I guess with information overload, your brain can’t process that when you are new to it. So, it’s just a learning stage, isn’t it? And, after a while you just see eleventy-million of them and start to see patterns across them as well.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, like “Here’s this book that I haven’t been able to sell what’s different about it?” Because I imagine four hundred titles was quite onerous for you to reprice during January.
Seth Baker: Yeah, I’ve since worked out a way of doing it a lot quicker. At the moment, I’ve got nearly 1,200 books. And I still do that manually, at the moment.
I reprice 600 every other day. So I’m repricing every day, but I worked out a way of doing it much quicker than I was doing it before. I don’t know if you want me to go into detail — probably quite useful. I don’t actually know how everyone else manually inspects, but what I used to do is: I used to go through every book I had and tap it out, control clip, open it up. What do you do?
Shanna Mann: It’s been a long time since I did it myself. But, there was like a linkclump plug-in. And you take the little red box and you scoot it down all through the FBA prices. And then, that opens up a wave of tabs in Chrome and then you just open up the next tab and you look at it and you say “Oh this price is…” Because with the used books, you need to basically look at what your competition is doing. So if some dummy is doing it Like New for $10 less than your book, you obviously want to know that, when you’re pricing, you’re good because on the Amazon screen, of course, it just shows you in the like categories, if you have it set up correctly.
It’s very time-consuming and, once you get the hang of it, I’m kind of like “Well, maybe you wanna maybe want to hire that out because it’s very time consuming and yet quite necessary for books.”
Seth Baker: Yeah, but the thing with hiring out for me is that I kind of see repricing as invaluable because I get to learn the market of each book and because I’m buying a lot of books as replens now, I’m replenishing a lot of my stock with books that I know that are going to sell well, or I’m getting for good prices from a certain supplier, I want to know how many big sellers are constantly on that. So, when I may re-price, and I’m learning the market, and I’m getting to know when twenty books of that in stock. So I’ll hold off on buying that one just now. So, it’s a bit of a catch 22, because I don’t want to have to reprice 1,500 books when it gets that much, or 2,000, that’s that’s actually not only possible but it’s also quite valuable for me to keep doing it as I am, and it’s definitely making more sales for me.
So I’m at a quite a bit of a tough point now because I know that it’s going to start to be too difficult. But, on the point of repricing, I was tapping out and doing that, but I’ve since created a Google sheet where I put the Amazon URL in column A, say, and then I put and then I filter every ISBN — you know on the manage pricing screen, you’ve got 250 of your books, so I take all 250 of those and I put them in column B, and then I have another column, C, which is which is an extra part of the URL, which adds in each Used Acceptable, Used Good, and also New. So, that app I can open up 25-30 links at a time and it will give me the prime FBA offers and it will give me the new prices and all the used conditions as well.
It would just zoom more out. Whereas, when you’re using the linkclump in might not do all that. It might be doing the same thing as what you’re saying, but either way it’s a lot better than I was doing it.
Shanna Mann: So, you’re opening it so that the ticket you saved the links of the ticky boxes for…
Seth Baker: Yes, they’re as I want to see them.
Shanna Mann: So, it pulls it up and then you’ve got separate tabs for each for like the Acceptables and the goods and the… ?
Seth Baker: I’ll open tab 1, look out and it will show me all the FBA offers. There will be the New, Acceptable, Good, Very Good, and Like New all-in-one. And then, obviously because I don’t really care about the merchant fulfilled offers, it won’t include those. Okay, so it’s just a more efficient way.
Shanna Mann: So, you have it set up so that it goes to just the FBA offers.
Seth Baker: Yeah, exactly and sometimes there are some New.
Shanna Mann: Oh, LinkClump won’t do that. It’ll just give you FBA offers..
Seth Baker: Sometimes you get a low New offering and that would be make you wonder why it’s not selling. And I’ve spent weeks been like “What’s going on?” And it’s actually just because if there’s quite a few new books, you might you might miss out on that.
Shanna Mann: Are they Amazon’s books. or are they others?
Seth Baker: Yeah, there’s the occasional FBA seller that’s got a big load to get rid of New books for whatever reason that you got a good deal from (inaudible) . That’s really helped me out.
Shanna Mann: When you open the screen do you also have the Keepa app load at the same time?
Seth Baker: Yeah. I know that’s a lot slower. I do kind of need to know, whenever I’m dealing with a slower selling book, obviously because I need to know if I can accept a small margin and kind of wait it out a bit longer.
Shanna Mann: I was just checking to see if you had some brilliant work around for that because the Keepachart does actually load fairly slow.
Seth Baker: Yeah, it’s frustrating. I mean the the internet speeds aren’t that great in London, so it can take quite a while.
Shanna Mann: Well, when you said you were doing the 250 pages, my computer chokes on the 250 screen. I just keep it to 50, because my computer is like “bleh”.
Seth Baker: I’ve gone 250 because I want to get through them.
Shanna Mann: I can’t believe it with 600 a day. Wow! So, you must have quite a system down because I mean quite honestly you sound like a machine. And, just based on my experience, of how you’ve processed inventory through my warehouse, you are very detail-oriented and your. processing things in a very timely manner. It’s just great! People will process one of your emails and a very short period of time, there’s no puzzling over “What does he mean by this?” Your instructions are very clear-cut, and it’s been really nice. You must have a system because, like clockwork, the majority of your books land on Monday morning.
Seth Baker: Yeah, it’s funny you say that because I don’t buy at a certain time. I just buy books every day, whenever they’re available, because obviously the best books go like that. They’ll be gone a couple of hours. So, I just make it a point to buy books every day — and it’s always less on the weekend just because companies don’t really work on weekends, right? So, it’s Monday through Friday. Yeah, I find that odd. Maybe it’s some sort of lay over from them.
Shanna Mann: I was going to say it might be how their warehouse processes. Their supplier might just have a twice a week shipping schedule or something, you know?
Seth Baker: So, I don’t have a process with buying. It’s just whenever I can because I’m working a full-time job at the moment. I do this before work, on my lunch hour, and after work so I kind of have set times.
Shanna Mann: Wow! Do you have goals for your Amazon business or do you plan to like get rid of or do this?
Seth Baker: Yeah. I was actually going to quit my full-time work, but then I got offered this — I’m contracting, so I’m not an in full-time role, it’s just I like to do a bit of ,essentially, freelance work. So, I’m finishing that at the end of August. So, I’m planning on just taking the books full-time, but I’m also wary because I have been banned before, so I don’t want it to happen again, so I don’t really know what I want — at least one other revenue stream, just because it’s dangerous only having one. So, that’s kind of where I’m at. I can sustain myself on this but I also don’t want to have to take a salary out of this because I’m quite enjoying building it and not taking money out. Obviously I want that snowboard to keep rolling and getting bigger and bigger every year.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, it’s great how it compounds.
Seth Baker: Yeah, exactly and, obviously, living in London is very expensive. So, if I was to take money out of the business it would decrease that compounding stress momentum quite significantly. So, I don’t really want to just focus on this side.
Shanna Mann: And, what would you really get? What would you do with that extra eight hours a day to grow your Amazon business? Would you be able to source more? Would you be able to reprice more? That’s kind of a finite amount of things you can do to keep…
Seth Baker: Yeah. I’m kind of a point where I feel like I am at full capacity. So, I’m not too sure where where to go. I was kind of looking forward to August and September — seeing where the sales will go, and then kind of reassessing after that. But, I did mention to you in an email that after August and September I was potentially going to try and start sourcing wholesale suppliers for New books, but I don’t really know where to start, where to go, and you don’t really see that many FBA sellers just selling New books, but it definitely seems like something that could be a way of scaling, obviously.
Shanna Mann: So, Amazon has some rules in place for New books that you can run a foul of. So, you know, a lot of people will buy the New books in a Retail Arbitrage manner, right? They’ll go to the discards bin at Barnes & Noble or wherever, or Dollar Tree. Somebody just sent me a YouTube video about somebody flipping books from Dollar Tree — Dollar Tree is a dollar store, just like it sounds.
Seth Baker: Yeah, I’ve heard of it.
Shanna Mann: Yeah. So, there’s a there’s an awful lot of dollar store in liquidation places, however, you actually are not supposed to sell that kind of liquidation stuff. They often have little — the remainder dots — almost always, they do. And, even if they don’t, you get one complaint as Used sold as New — which is essentially the same as a counterfeit, it’s a bannable offense — and, if you can’t provide the sources, then you’re kind of SOL, at least for that ASIN. And, I know a lot of people will go along just collecting blocks for ASINs — just, you know, a couple a year, or three or four a year. And, as long as they’re doing pretty good sales volume and their metrics are otherwise good, it doesn’t seem to affect them too much. It’s kind of a mystery about how Amazon really decides who to ban and probably nobody expects —
Seth Baker: For me. for example, I saw that marker coming up for counterfeit, but I didn’t really — because I had no idea, this is the first time I’ve done this — I thought I could brush past it. And, it was a month or two later that they banned me.
Shanna Mann: So counterfeits are really bad. I’m not going to pretend I’m an Amazon Guru here, but I’ve been around it for long enough that I know counterfeits are very bad because anything that impacts Amazon like the trust of the Amazon Customer is a very big deal to Amazon. And then, the next thing is Used sold as New. So, because you’ve been doing all Used books, you probably haven’t seen that complaint because you haven’t sold very many, if any, New books. — I’m not really sure. But, even then, because you’re doing online arbitrage, at least you have a paper trail of a supplier there. Whereas, if you go and buy books from a Dollar Tree, your average dollar store receipt is just a ticker tape that says $1, $1, $1, $1.
Seth Baker: It’s got no ISBN on it. (inaudible)
Shanna Mann: Exactly, it’s, for our proof purposes. It’s completely useless. But, for selling on Amazon, I know that there are sources of like non-remaindered books, particularly gift books and children’s books that you could get in with people who produce them by the gross for various things and then, as the season moves on, they need to offload their inventory. But you’re not going to get the sales ranks that you now enjoy with your textbooks — nothing sells like textbooks. So, it’s one of those it’s one of those, from what I’ve seen, a lot of people who do it have pre-existing relationships. I know of a guy in North Carolina who seems to have a sweetheart deal with a warehouser in one of those coastal cities — some city in North Carolina. And, he basically, whenever they need to shift some inventory, he just takes several pallets — no questions-asked, like “Whatever you need to get rid of ‘I’m your guy'”– and then he sells them in flea markets and he sells them in various little gift shops all over North Carolina and it has a lot of legwork.
Oftentimes, what you’re doing is you’re taking somebody who has inventory that it’s not worth for them to package up and sell online, and you’re getting creative on how to offload it. So, one thing that might be really interesting for stuff like that is gift books, children’s books, maybe some seasonal items, things of that nature. It might be cool to get into wholesaling them as bundles. So, you can’t have a book or a media item as the main part of a bundle, but say you bundle a book, and a teddy bear, and a bunch of stickers and you’ve got a great gift for a kid. So, that sort of thing is, I think you’d have to be more creative about it than your typical flipper.
But, when you’re more creative and the more leg work that you put into it, the more defensible the position is and the more you can improve your markup because the other thing about books, other than textbooks, is the markups are not great. The margins are, you know, fairly minimal just because when you, yourself are sourcing online as an overseas seller, you’re not going to get the books for a nickel that a lot of the U.S is going to get.
Seth Baker: Yeah, and that is a bit of a shame. But, I guess, in terms of scaling, for me, there are so many books that do so well. I’m kind of intrigued to see — I note down every ISBN I buy that’s unique, right — so I’m constantly buying new ISBNs that I haven’t bought before. So the way I’m looking at it is if I will keep making more money, keep building that compound, and keep finding new ISBNs because books are constantly being published or constantly being sold used. I’m just interested to see where I can take it and how far I can scale it. There’s no reason why I can’t keep growing. Obviously, there will be a ceiling but I’ve still got quite a long way to go. So yeah, I guess watch this space, but..
Shanna Mann: I know! It’s really interesting because, I don’t know if you’ve heard the mathematical theorem of “How do you figure out how many piano tuners are in the city of Chicago?” No? All right. Well, it’s like a job interview thing supposedly–
Seth Baker: Right, yeah, where you’ve got to be analytical–
Shanna Mann: Exactly! So, in theory, only a certain amount of books are going to meet your profit requirements. Only a certain number of books are going to meet your demand requirements — like sales rank. So, they’re not necessarily going to be sourceable and where they’re not going to necessarily have arbitrage opportunities, or they’re not going to necessarily be in demand. But, those three circles have to overlap somewhere and “how much do they overlap?” — who knows?
Seth Baker: Yeah, exactly. Another good thing about books is that you’ve got massive sellers like Better World Books. Well massive merchant filters and massive FBA sellers that will often have pricing errors that you can explode with. You can explore it every day by Keepa alerts. And you can see this. And you can obviously see when there is a price narrower. All the other books will follow via the repricer and you can just pick those off and. I don’t see why that won’t keep happening because massive sellers can’t keep a tab on all of their books and I’m picking those off. I’m interested to see that it’s not going to stop so I can just keep doing that and keep building that, really.
Shanna Mann: No, I think you’re probably going to be on the other end before before long. You’ll be counted one of those massive sellers and not be able to keep up with your own repricing that allows you to exploit that loophole in the market. So you might need, you know, I think it’s wise of you to continue to reprice and keep that learning process going. And, at the same time, you might also want to train somebody to also do, it or a few somebodys, so that each of you can take a small, reasonable, chunk. And they can also keep an eye out for replens for you. You can figure out whatever your parameters for refunds and they’ll supply you with a list after they reprice every day, or whatever.
Seth Baker: Yeah. I just hear horror stories about VAs. So, I think for me it’ll be a case of hiring someone here to be a manager. And, obviously, that’s going to cost me a lot more. But, at least I can better train them and I know what they’re up to, kind of thing.
Shanna Mann: Yeah. It depends on — I have a fair amount of experience with hiring VA’s, although not necessarily just for Amazon tasks. But, I do like the structure of having a Managerial VA to supervise many more low-cost VA’s because many of much of what you want to accomplish is mechanical, but doesn’t require a lot of judgment, at the same time.
There are always a few aspects of it that do require a lot of judgment. The most successful setups I have seen involve not making yourself the hub of the wheel — making someone else the hub of the wheel and having each person report to them and move stuff up the line for your manager to look at. And then, the manager compiles and analyzes the data and presents it to you for a review — because of how you can get so burnt out on analysis. Like, I’m pretty sure you’ve seen yourself when you’re analyzing day after day after day. After a while, you get into kind of an autopilot, where you’re not even really thinking anymore — you’re just sort of feeling your way through the decisions.
So, if you can figure out a way to reduce the amount of decision fatigue by having someone present you with, basically, home runs, then you can just be like “Yeah, those all look good. They all meet meet my parameters”, rather than actually having to think about every question every time.
Seth Baker: Yeah, I think I wouldn’t ever outsource the buying, just because I’ve noticed that all the best buys will be gone within an hour, two hours, three hours max. So I can’t have someone emailing me stuff at the end of the day because I will miss them all. So,yeah I probably would outsourcing reprocessing at some point and and other things, I think I’d always do the buying myself, or have someone actively doing it.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, I was gonna say you probably, you know could give them a credit card share on last pass or something.
Seth Baker: Yeah. Yeah, something like that. That’s something to think about I guess.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, I mean, I’m not sure — it depends on if you’ve got like time zone arbitrage. I remember when I used to do this, it was a long time ago now so I don’t know if this is still thing — but, if I would get up and reprice at like 5 o’clock in the morning, because that’s when I’m up anyway. Then, there was often a lot of where the repricer, had done something stupid overnight and dropped like a penny every minute or something and there would be a lot of arbitragable buys there.
Seth Baker: Yeah, I think that does happen. But, I think I have a feeling it’s a bit rare now because you do hear stories about people’s reprices going a bit haywire, but I’ve only seen a couple of times. And when I went to buy them, they were gone. So someone had already had them all the reprice and maybe had just cut or something like that, but I think that’s a bit rare, I’m not sure.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, that was such a big loophole that I was surprised to see it even then because, even then, you know, pricing wars like that were the stuff of legend. It was 2013 or something.
Seth Baker: So, a bit more intelligent now, they’re a lot slower to go down. Now, I did do a really good deal in January, which I just got an alert on Keepa that this book had gone down to $9, or something, brand new so I just bought 20 of them — all of their stock — and then, on a trade in buy-back site, it was due to scan for $50, that was just like $1k, straight up. But that’s rare obviously, but something to look out for.
Shanna Mann: Everybody says that you make the money on the buying side not on the selling side. Buy low, don’t anticipate selling high. Do you have a lot of problems with the gatings?
Seth Baker: I really haven’t. I think I remember when — I don’t know if it’s a thing that happens every July — but, I remember when I first started with you guys, I sent a load of books in, and I sell a lot of books, I sent… I can’t remember how many… Probably like 50 or something, and maybe 20 of them got gated. I’d spent quite a lot of money on them, unfortunately, and I was quite upset about that at the time. And then, I’ve noticed that this July, at the same time, I’ve had a few books gated. But, this time, it was only three books out of, obviously I’ve got quite a lot more now. So, I feel like maybe once you’ve had a year of experience, they don’t get you as much. Is that how it works?
Shanna Mann: That’s my experience, as well. I was just making sure that you weren’t getting gated, but cleverly arranging not to buy them.
Seth Baker: Yeah, I think I’m just allowed to sell way more than I was before.
Shanna Mann: And I think it’s because of your volume because we also have clients who do a really steady 50-100 books every single month. They’re really steady sellers, but they’re not seeing a lot of volume. Whereas, and they’re still gated not like crazy amounts, but they’re still seeing more more gatings. Whereas, as from what I’ve noticed, you’re barely ever gated. But, at the same time, you’re also doing a lot of replens. So, I think a lot of people probably also, as a function of sales volume, don’t don’t go back to their previous purchases to do the replens, so they’re always in fresh territory with new ASINs.
Seth Baker: Yeah, true, maybe inventory score has something to do with it, as well. I don’t know.
Shanna Mann: It makes sense. I think sales volume is probably more important, but then sales volume is a big part of your inventory scores as well. You essentially sell through. Because you’re doing mostly used books, you’re not going to see the Used sold as New. but do you get the scary letters from Amazon very often about the counterfeits that you’re so familiar with on the UK site?
Seth Baker: I’ve had absolutely nothing of that nature, whatsoever. I’ve had no emails from Amazon with regards to anything like that.
Shanna Mann: Well, anyone doing your volume, I would expect that you would get one or two. Could you present possibly–
Seth Baker: I haven’t had that whatsoever which is quite fortunate, I guess.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, especially with your volume. So that’s what I’ve seen with some of my other high-volume sellers is they’ll get an email saying “Please provide us with your invoice and provide us with one of the the action plans” or whatever they call them. So, my other high-volume sellers are just sort of like “Yeah… Do you remember anything about this book?” And, of course, we’re like “Yeah, not really.”
Seth Baker: Well, I guess this is a testament to you guys doing your job so well that I that I haven’t had that. But, also another point is that I’ve stopped buying from random people on eBay. I only ever buy off big sellers now because I know I’m going to get less returns, and just because it’s more reliable and because I know that if I needed to I could go to them for an invoice and they’d actually do that for me. So, yeah, I guess I’ve been lucky. Hopefully that won’t happen.
Shanna Mann: I mean, I think that’s really important. I don’t think that all of the eBay sellers are sketch, but the part of the problem is in consistency with which Amazon decides what is a qualifiable invoice or what is a legitimate reseller. Because with Used Books, particularly, in regards to counterfeits, you’re just expected to show that you bought it off a legitimate seller and had every reason to believe that it was legitimate. And, you know, it’s anyone’s guess whether the person that you bought it off of eBay was. We had one guy who basically cross-referenced all of his suppliers with the title and the ASIN to make sure that they weren’t basically dumping books. So, if they had a whole bunch of copies of DSM-V, he would immediately flag them as being potential counterfeiters and would basically audit the books that he shipped in from them. Which, I was like “Wow! That’s impressive!” And, he got a bunch of scary letters from Amazon and he was like “Yep, no more eBay people. Nope. Nope.”
Seth Baker: Yeah, I think also I am weary because I know, like DSM-5, there’s a lot of books like that. I know for a fact that there’s no point in buying them. And I bought a couple that you guys have noticed is counterfeit. And I’ve just noted down that ISBN — I’m not gonna buy that again. I just don’t want to take that risk.
Shanna Mann: That’s a terrible ISBN. And, anyone who asks me, I’m just like “As far as I’m concerned, there are no legitimate copies of this in existence, ever.”
Seth Baker: No, I don’t know what color it’s supposed to be. I’ve no idea. Is it purple? Is it black?
Shanna Mann: Oh, I mean it is purple but like the shade of purple varies widely.
Seth Baker: Yeah example in the UK–
Shanna Mann: Oh, really? Is it also often illegitimate there?,
Seth Baker: Oh, yeah. I’ve turned over a few of those. I’m surprised I didn’t get counterfeit claims for that.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, it’s such it’s such a high demand title. And, I mean, at this point, I don’t know if they’ve ever published a legitimate copy of it. But, I know–
Seth Baker: It’s scary, isn’t it?
Shanna Mann: Now and like we tried, I guess it was February, we tried to follow — so, there’s a Consortium of Publishers that basically got together to try and stamp out counterfeiting, best of luck to them, but their guidelines for what constitutes counterfeiting is ignored by their own Publishers every single day. Books are supposed to have those little cloth in the binding, at the top of binding, and it’s just ridiculous. And the glue — maybe on the fourth printing the glue is still good, but by the 22nd printing they’re just phoning it in.
Seth Baker: It does annoy me, though, that you get Abe Books and other book websites like that — that allow sellers who are blatantly selling International editions — is that okay? Yeah, and they just allowed to be on the listing. Why are they not bad? Why can they not be cut off?
Shanna Mann: I’m not sure about their policy there for them because amazon is the only online bookseller, that I’m aware of, that actually bans International listings. And now Amazon is even offering — I’ve noticed Amazon is even offering trade in orn Global editions, which I was like “What now?”
So, they must have won some sort of landmark case or something because they do say, quite explicitly, on the cover of all the global editions “Not for sale in the US”. But, as long as they’re on the Amazon, on a specific global edition listing, Amazon has no problem with them. I’m not sure if that’s because they plan to basically just hide behind the fact that a lot of countries — regardless of whether they have their own Amazon — the selection on Amazon.com dwarfs anything anywhere else. So, when we first started doing FBA, we would have a fun book game — like, a board on the wall with the world map and whenever Amazon would send a book of ours, to Abu Dhabi or whatever, we would put a pin in it because our books are going everywhere. But, I’m assuming that that’s the fig leaf that they’re using that — of course, it’s only the Indian students who are buying these Global Editions off of our US site, of course. Anyways, so you don’t have any VA’s at the moment, you do this all yourself?
Seth Baker: Yeah, it’s just me.
Shanna Mann: How how many hours a day would you say you put into this?
Seth Baker: Quite a few. I’m pretty much doing it all day. Just because there’s something I just really enjoy about buying something low somewhere and then it on Amazon for a higher price. It’s just a hobby for me and the fact that it makes money is good. So, I am pretty much at it all day. And I would say that there’s no point in getting into this if it doesn’t interest you quite a lot, because it’s going to take a lot of work to be able to get to a point where you’re doing steady five-figure months. Because that obviously takes a lot of work to source, takes a lot of work to price — and there’s no way around that work. So, I’m spending most of the day on it, really.
Shanna Mann: You said you’re doing it at your lunch at work? I’m not sure if you have the kind of job that’s an IT job, or something, where between tasks you can —
Seth Baker: I am doing quite a lot at work, which I shouldn’t really say, but yeah…
Shanna Mann: I don’t know if you follow Run It or Entrepreneur, or any of those sort of online forums. I do definitely see a lot of people have like tech-type jobs where their job is just to basically be there when something blows up, but, in between time, they just don’t have that much to do.
Seth Baker: It’s quite funny you say that because I am currently working as a Finance Support on a Finance Support desk. So when I’ve got a nice, clean slate, and there are no complaints, and I can obviously do as much repricing as I want.
Shanna Mann: Right! There’s no tickets — what else are you supposed to do, just open Facebook? See, that’s how I know you’re different because who’s looking for opportunities to do that? Repricing is so boring.
Seth Baker: Yeah, it’s not interesting. But, as I say, if you’re learning when these books or how often they sell, for me I just see it as a way of “Yeah, I’m making more money the more I reprice.” It’s kind of just a reframe of it, really.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, and it was also a big challenge when I started writing down SOPs to automate our book business, where it was like I had to think about what I had learned implicitly and try to make it explicit, like “This is what we’re thinking about when we see this.” So, that was also another big challenge — that whenever you get bored of repricing, and you think your learning curve has sort of leveled off. I highly recommend writing SOPs and re-engaging and being like “What am I trying to do here?”
Seth Baker: Yeah. I think I definitely need to do that. And even if at some point I wanted to sell this, I don’t know how viable that would be, but I’d obviously have SOPs for absolutely everything so it’s probably something I will do in the future.
Shanna Mann: I had like a whole page here of questions. I just want to make sure I got them all.
Okay, so you don’t have SOPs. But, you must be a pretty organized person because you present us with very organized task lists to do. My warehouse manager loves getting one of your emails because he’s like “I’m gonna go do a Baker email!” And, your band is separated in between there, like your regular books, and your trade ins and the stuff that you’re probably going to return as soon as you’ve finished reviewing the spreadsheet, which you do like every single day. So we love you for it! And so he’s like, “I’m just gonna go do a baker email!” And someone will read off the stuff on your email, and someone will pull them from your stack, and it’s all really super organized and lickity-split.
It’s really hard. It’s really hard to express how nice it is when everything is orderly, in the way you expect it. And it’s difficult because everybody sort of thinks about things in a different way. So, we’re kind of used to being like, “Okay. Well, here’s what this person was getting at. And here’s how they organize their email.” And “Okay. I think I know what’s going on.” But yours are very in tune to what we’re doing because you just move from the trade-ins to the returns and everything’s attached to the bottom of the email, and it’s really great. I just can’t express it and I probably sound like a super nerd right now.
But, you must have probably a mental checklist, it sounds like, of things you have to do every single day.
Seth Baker: Yeah. I mean, I keep it really simple. I just use Trello. I just have Trello, and then I have a Monday Trello, Tuesday Trello… Every day of the week, and I just pop in the things I need to do.
So whether it be send that trade in email… And then I’ll put, probably, a list of ISBNs I’m thinking about returning on one of the days, and I’ll work my way through them. And the,n depending on my full-time job, how clean the tickets are, and how little I have to do, then I’ll choose on a Monday or Tuesday to go through all the trade ins, go through the returns, and then send that email off.
So it’s simple, but it’s just a to-do list, really. That’s just the way I wanna keep it.
Shanna Mann: So, do you have reoccurring tasks on your to-do list, though? Or do you think them up every day?
Seth Baker: Yeah. I’ll leave them on there sometimes, if they’re reoccurring, but archive them. And then I’ll pop them back on when I remember I need to do it, or whatever.
I think there are just things I just remember to keep doing, so I’ll make sure every couple of days to paste all my buyers from a buyer sheet onto your spreadsheet. It’s just things like that I need to keep up with. So, it’s a mixture of Trello and kind of just knowing that I need to do regularly. So, I know I’m repricing every day, so I know that I need to do that at some point. So yeah, it’s a mixture of the two.
Shanna Mann: So what other kind of tools do you use? I know you’re one of the few people who does trade-ins successfully. A lot of the times, people are getting slammed with — well, this is really annoying from our perspective as well, because the trading companies have already all been sued by the publishing companies for aiding and abetting counterfeiters, essentially. They’re very prickly about trade-ins for the most part, in terms of their legitimacy. So, often times, especially if somebody does a multiple buy where they’re selling and sending in several copies of a book, they’ll get a letter from the publisher from the trading company being like “Unable to confirm authenticity”.
Seth Baker: Yeah, I’ve had that a few times, not loads. I’ve noticed a few suppliers are worse than I was so I don’t go near Textbook Recycling now, because they’ve pulled a few of my books that were clearly not counterfeit. You guys haven’t labeled it as counterfeit. And then I forgot about them because I’ve got so many trade-ins going through — that was me being unorganized and that was probably a few hundred dollars down the pan just because they hadn’t offered to send it back, they hadn’t sent me an email. I had to log into their account, but I’ve just noticed that certain companies are much better, so I’ve worked that out over experience.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, exactly. Textbook recycling has a ridiculous minimum too, doesn’t it? Like, a $150 or $200 minimum?
Seth Baker: No, no. It’s not that bad. Actually, I think it might only be $50 or something. I just wouldn’t go near them. But, most of the other ones, I really haven’t had a problem with. I’ve probably only had about 10-20 books pulled for authenticity. eCampus aren’t great either.
Shanna Mann: Do you arrange to get them back? Because, that’s the other thing — people email us and be like “They say this book is authentic” and we’re like “No. Actually, they’re saying that they don’t know if it’s authentic and they’ve already been sued.”
Seth Baker: Yeah, sometimes though, Textbook Recycling will often send it back, but they won’t send you an e-mail. So, I can’t keep up with that if I’m not being organized. But eCampus and Sell Back Books, which I think are the same company, they’ll just say “We’re going to send it to the publisher to confirm.” You’re never getting that book back.
Shanna Mann: I honestly would be suspicious if it actually went to the publisher, or if the publisher stripped the cover, and just —
Seth Baker: Yeah. So, I lost a few books in that, but I think some of the margins I’ve made on trade ins, and obviously because you’re not dealing with any fees, I’d say the last four months I’ve consistently made $1,000 profit just from trading, so it’s a nice added revenue.
Shanna Mann: Yeah. So how does that work for you, when you’re buying a book? You’re obviously looking at the differential between your sourcing and your. projected FBA price. Then, do you also take the extra steps to run that through bookscouter.com?
Seth Baker: So, I only ever do trade-ins with books I can’t sell on Amazon, pretty much. I pretty much always put them into FBA, just because I want the experience and know whether that book sells, and usually you can make more profit. So the only times I’ll do trading is if I’m not allowed to sell it, or if it’s a real slow seller, and I know that its’ trading price is probably not usually that high so I’ll check in then. But yes, usually just the books I can’t sell.
Shanna Mann: So do you use Bookscouter?
Seth Baker: Also, sorry, and direct textbook, those are the two best ones. I think with direct textbook, usually, I actually get better prices than bookscout. So, I would use Direct Textbook.
Shanna Mann: Okay. Well, the reason I was asking is because I think bookscouter has an app, or something similar to Keepa where you can put price alerts for the trade in prices, or something like that.
Seth Baker: I think with bookscout you have to pay for a subscription for that, whereas DIrect Textbooks will do that for free, though.
I stopped using that just because it’s frustrating getting all the emails through because it will email you when the prices change, so you’re getting emails daily. I mean, it’s useful but, because I don’t do that many trade-ins, I don’t really use that service and I’m not sure with bookscouter what you get for that money because I don’t think it’s worth it for me. Obviously, Keepa is worth its weight in gold. I don’t think it’s cancerous, really.
Shanna Mann: Okay. That’s what I was wondering is, oftentimes, a lot of people will be like, “Well, I’m not doing enough volume to really get enough use out of this tool or that tool”, and, oftentimes, I explain to people that, just in the time you save and the improvement in your buying, it’s oftentimes very much worth it because it helps you scale faster, even. Fifty dollars a month is probably a pretty nice chunk of your net every month. And yes, it does keep you from reinvesting it but, at the same time, your decisions are much better.
Seth Baker: So, going into what I tools I use, I do have a feedback tool I use., I use Feedback Express, which I think is a UK company, but they do US also. I’ll pay $25 a month, maybe, for that and that just sends an automated email that, obviously, so that and Keepa are the only things that I pay for, I think. And then, obviously, a repricer might come further down the line, but I don’t pay for any other software. And the rest of my software I use free and it’s just productivity stuff. So, I’d include Trello in that. And then context search…. You know, that one? That’s a really useful one.
Shanna Mann: That’s the one that you can program it and it will open up all of the reseller sites. So, you could have it programmed to open up any site.
Seth Baker: It’s good for if you just want to double-click on an ISBN, and then you’ll get Amazon pop up and you’ll be able to see Keepa or book finder. Concept Search is really useful — another one I use, which highlights words on their webpage, so for international editions, South Asia, and certain sellers I just don’t want to ever buy off and it seems like a small thing, but that honestly saves so much time because your brain obviously works with colors, and it’s a lot more intelligent than us. So, that one’s really useful just for siphoning out info. Hmm… Trying to think of all the sites.
Shanna Mann: Well, you must have an extensive Suite of spreadsheets because you’ve got your buy spreadsheet, and you’re repricing spreadsheet, and your, I’m assuming, a replen spreadsheet that you check for free.
Seth Baker: Yeah. So I’ve got buys, repricing, a trade in sheet, just obviously to keep a note of my profits on that. And then I’ve got a few different lists of ISBNs, I’ve got ASINs and ISBNs that I’m gated in — ones that I’m more inclined to replen. And then, just a list of every single ISBN I’ve sold. I think lists of ISBNs are super important because you want to keep referring back to it. And you’re never going to remember which books you bought and which ones were gated, and so I keep that. I think that’s one of the keys to being able to do volume by a scale. Because, if you keep having to check when you’re getting something, that’s just going to take all day, really.
Shanna Mann: Do you have any kind of direct import set up for your ASINs, or is that all done manually?
Seth Baker: What do you mean direct import?
Shanna Mann: I always kind of preface this with how good are you at Excel?
Seth Baker: Not bad. Yeah, I can run a Macro.
Shanna Mann: All right, then you’re excellent at Excel. So, there is a great piece of software by the other book flipper — I think his website is The Book Flipper.
Seth Baker: Oh, yeah I bought his spreadsheet from your —
Shanna Mann: Oh, excellent! Yes. I really like his ROI spreadsheet, or I forget what he calls it, exactly — tracking spreadsheet, or something like that.
Seth Baker: That’s that’s awesome.
Shanna Mann: Thank you. Yes, I was going to say I hope you’re importing into that because that’s so useful.
Seth Baker: Sorry, that’s another thing I’ve obviously paid for. That’s one of the most useful things —
Shanna Mann: That’s one of the most used. It was a one-time fee. I like to recommend the stuff that’s a one-time fee because I think that helps you get over the hurdle.
Seth Baker: I recommend everyone get that spreadsheet because it’s just so methodical, and it’s just everything there, and it’s so useful.
Shanna Mann: And the reports are really awesome. And they’re beautiful, to begin with, very beautiful reports. And then, also, you’re over here month-over-month tracking — I think you can even do week-over-week tracking —
Seth Baker: And then, you’ve got turn rate in there and you can see your sales tax and it’s just got everything in there.
Shanna Mann: The other thing I really liked — I do exclusively offline sourcing because it’s just a hobby me and my husband do where it gives us an excuse to travel, really. And, so, I like to keep the spreadsheet for how good my sources are and basically compare the sources for the quality of their books –how fast they sold and just, basically, ROI because I often found that sometimes the smaller sales if they were like more niche or more like we had like a better relationship with the crew that ran it, you know, we would consistently turn over way better inventory from it and sell it faster and get all kinds of sweetheart deals, which I’m not sure if that would really super duper apply to you, but, at a certain point, you just sort of look at your numbers and you realize “That’s actually a really good source for me. I’m going to concentrate more of my time there”, whereas, “This is actually a terrible source for me. There’s way better places that I could be concentrating my time.” Yeah, definitely it’s useful because it’s got a whole page of all your stuff so yeah, that’s really, really useful.
And, I guess I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you how you do the sales tax and operating in a foreign country thing? Do you have like an accountant or…?
Seth Baker: Yeah, I was going to say that I’ve forgotten — that’s another thing I pay for. It’s quite frustrating point for me actually because I remember you gave me a little bit of advice, I think on the Facebook group or whatever, but I spent a lot of time researching sales tax and I was getting a bit worried because, obviously, I’m doing a bit more money and I don’t want them to audit me and have to pay five percent of everything. So, I came to the conclusion that I’m going to sign up for sales tax in all the states and just do it. And, because I haven’t been collecting for a year, I thought “It’s better if I do it now.” So, I’ve done that. I signed up to the main states that I owe more money, so like California, Texas, Florida. And then, after researching, I realize that actually, in October, California are going to be part of the —
Shanna Mann: But that just happened!
Seth Baker: So, I signed up about a week before that was decided so I was so frustrated. So I’ve paid however much to California just on penalties, and stuff. Yeah, pretty frustrating. But, luckily, it wasn’t too much money and I’ve paid it all off now. But, there’s only a few states after October and January next year that aren’t going to be part of this Amazon nautical.
Shanna Mann: I haven’t been paying attention because I’ve already been long signed up for everything.
Seth Baker: Okay. Yeah, I mean, the way I’m looking at is, because I’m a foreign seller, I’ve only got my first US to turn. They’re never going to chase me. There’s no chance. But, for some reason I’ve gone and done it and I’m feeling pretty stupid about it, really but I have done it for the main states and at least I’m kind of compliant now.
Shanna Mann: It’s one of those things where, a lot of the time, I look at it as like “Wouldn’t that be nice to not have to worry about this now?” Like, instead of worrying about like if the shoe is going to drop, or seeing reports about how New York State basically asked Amazon for all their sales records and they just handed them over. And it would just be nice not to worry about it. So I just I call it my peace of mind texts, essentially.
Seth Baker: No, it is good. And I just I just never knew it was a pass-through tax. I thought it was me having to pay money out of my pocket, so I’m annoyed that I didn’t set it up earlier and just get it done earlier.
Shanna Mann: Okay. Yeah, then it sounds like you did all the sign up yourself, so that was also, I would imagine, be a massive exercise in frustration.
Seth Baker: Very, very frustrating and my bank in the US doesn’t do direct debits, like ACH debit. So, I’ve had to pay everything by credit card which adds an extra 3% fee. And, I’ve had to call them up and pay with checks. It’s been a complete nightmare.
Shanna Mann: Are you with Wells Fargo?
Seth Baker: No, no, I can’t have a normal bank account because I’m a foreigner. I have to go via something like Payoneer. I don’t use Payoneer, I use transferwise> I think those are the companies that do it. But, Transferwise didn’t offer a direct debit, at the moment, and neither did Payoneer. So, it’s taken a lot of hours out of my day, dealing with them, like “Take my money, California.” It’s been really frustrating. But, I think I’m working through the worst of it now. So, it’s okay.
Shanna Mann: The ways that I have heard — just in case you want to nip this in the bud further down the line — is that, I think there are a few banks that, because you’re in London, so that’s really well placed, so, I think if you found an American Bank that has an international presence, like Chase, don’t use Wells Fargo because they’re terrible and corrupt. But um, oh Charles Schwab! That’s the one. Okay, Charles Schwab is a very old and venerable institution and I know that they have a pretty strong International presence. So, if you can find a London-based firm that has a storefront, and tellers, and things like that, you should be able to open up an account there. And then be able to now have an American account through their bank. It’s probably, you know, double the fees or whatever but, having a banking account, or a checking account rather, in the UK and a checking account in USA can’t be that much in fees compared to Payoneer fuse.
Seth Baker: Yeah, I mean actually the fees for transfering wasn’t all that bad. Well, as long as you keep churning your money in dollars. But, as soon as I have to put it to my UK account, It is costing quite a lot. But yeah, I’ll definitely look into Chase Bank.
Shanna Mann: Yeah, that’s awesome! Thank you so much for spending so much time with me. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your evening, when you could have been repricing.
Seth Baker: No. Thank you.
Shanna Mann: And, it’s amazing to be starting in January 2018 and we’re like 18 months later and you’re already on track to make at least a quarter million, and probably like $400,000 in revenue this year. So, congratulations!